Sosa :93,142,225
 Margaret of Wales /ferch Llywelyn/, de Brewes, ferch Llywelyn, de Braose, Brewes //


  • Born about 1208 - Caernarvonshire, Wales
  • Deceased after 1268 - Clifford Castle, Herefordshire, England

 Parents

 Spouses and children

 Half-siblings

On the side of Llywelyn ap Iorwerth 1173-1240

 Notes

Individual Note


_FSLINK: https://familysearch.org/tree/#view=ancestor&person=9HDP-4FV
{Cymru 742-1535} :
{British Isles 742-1499}

== Biography ==
, daughter of , was Llywelyn's wife, but may not have been the mother of Margaret (see ). married (1) in 1219 , (2) before 2 Nov. 1234 Douglas Richardson, [http://www.royalancestry.net/ Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families], 5 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham, (Salt Lake City,Utah: the author, 2013), volume V, page 298; volume 1, pp 530-532 (married after 1232[http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/WALES.htm#MargaretM1JohnBraoseM2WalterClifford Margaret ferch Llywelyn], Foundation for Medieval Genealogy ()).
, Lord of Bramber and Gower, was the son of William de Briouse & his wife _____"The Chronicle of thePrinces of Wales records that 'John de Bruse married Margaret the daughter of Llywelyn son of Iorwerth' in 1219" ([http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISHNOBILITYMEDIEVAL3.htm#JohnBriouseMMargaretB John de Briouse], ) (also de Brewes, Breuse, Brause, etc.,Douglas Richardson, [http://www.royalancestry.net/ Magna Carta Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families], Royal Ancestry series, 2nd edition, 4 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham, (Salt LakeCity, Utah: the author, 2011), volume I, pp [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=8JcbV309c5UC&pg=PA316#v=onepage&q&f=false 316-318] de Braose,[http://cadair.aber.ac.uk/dspace/bitstream/handle/2160/5112/gruffudd%20ap%20cynan%204.png?sequence=1&isAllowed=y Gruffudd ap Cynan] () and Bruse[http://www.maryjones.us/ctexts/brut_y_tywysogion.html Brut y Tywysogion], Jesus MS 111 (Red Book of Hergest), retrieved 2014-06-08, ). John wasborn about 1197 (aged 22 in 1219), son of William by Maud de Clare.
Her children with John de Brewes (John de de Briouse Lord of Bramber and GowerFoundation for Medieval Genealogy ()):* , Knt., 1st Lord Brewes, married (1) , (2) ,(3) * (born before 1232), Knt., married * sons Llywelyn and John are not listed by * , married Margery ____: John was "killed by a fall from his horse near Bramber, Sussex shortly before 16 July 1232".
After her first husband's death in 1232, Margaret married before 2 Nov. 1234 , Knt., of Clifford, Herefordshire, Cortham (in Diddlebury), Shropshire, Caenby, Lincolnshire, etc., and Bronllys, Breconshire, etc., Sheriff of Herefordshire, Constable of Cardigan and Carmarthen Castles, son and heir of Walter de Clifford, of Clifford, Herefordshire, by Agnes de Cundy, daughter and heiress of Roger de Condet of Caenby and Glentham, Lincolnshire. says as his 2nd wife, but ([http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISHNOBILITYMEDIEVAL3.htm#WalterIIIClifforddied1263 Walter de Clifford]) does not show a previous wife for him. He was her second husband.
Margaret and had one daughter:Douglas Richardson, [http://www.royalancestry.net/ Magna Carta Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families], Royal Ancestry series, 2nd edition, 4 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham, (Salt Lake City,Utah: the author, 2011), volume I, pp [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=8JcbV309c5UC&pg=PA316#v=onepage&q&f=false 316-318]* (Matilda[http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISHNOBILITYMEDIEVAL3.htm#WalterIIIClifforddied1263Walter Clifford] ()) de Clifford, marred (1) , Knt., (2) , Knt.,1st Lord Giffard (John Giffard had abducted her.[https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/soc.genealogy.medieval/margaret$20llywelyn/soc.genealogy.medieval/2qOqgMTG9YM/sKJWdAQSaQoJ soc.genealogy.medieval post], October 1999, by "pcr")
, Knt., died December 1263 (shortly before 23 Dec. 1263). Margaret was still living in 1268.
"At her death, her heart was buried in the church of Aconbury, Herefordshire."

=== Estimated Birth Date ===: No estimate of Margaret's birth year is found in Norr, Cokayne, or Richardson.
Margaret married 1219. Her first son by John de Brewes, William, issaid to have been of "full age 15 July 1245," thus born by 1224. "Though he was allowed to succeed his father in 1232, before 18 July, he is not stated to have been of full age in the Fine Rolls until 15 July 1245."[https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/soc.genealogy.medieval/margaret$20llywelyn/soc.genealogy.medieval/2qOqgMTG9YM/sKJWdAQSaQoJ soc.genealogy.medieval post], October 1999, by "pcr"
One method of estimation would be to assume, given the facts above, that son William was conceived in 1223 and that the marriage, though arranged earlier, was first consummated in 1223, when Margaret achieved the age of 15. This would place Margaret's birth at 1208. Since she is not recognized by Cawley as a daughter of llywelyn's wife Joan, Margaret's mother would have been one of llywelyn's mistresses. This is consistent with other estimates of her birth year. 18:46, 26 February 2016 (EST)
John de Braose was killed at Bramber 16 July 1232, having been bruised in a fall from his horse [Curia Regis Rolls, 490-1; CCR 1231-4, Hen. III, 2:86; Brut (1860), p. 320-1; Brut (1952), p. 102; Brut (1955),p. 231].
The lands, wardship and marriage of William de Braose, son and heirof John, was in the hands of various nobles until he came of age in 1241, indicating a birth year of about 1220:* Peter des Riveaux was first custodian [see CCR 1231-4, Hen. III, 2:86; CPR 1225-32, Hen. III, 2:490].* Henry de Turberville was granted the lands and marriage in March 1234 [CPR 1232-47, Hen. III, 3:41, 45].* Richard Siward was granted the same in July 1234 [CPR 1232-47, Hen.III, 3:61].* Richard, Earl of Cornwall, the King's brother, was granted the custody, lands and marriage of William de Braose in January 1234/5 until 1241, when William came of age [CPR 1232-47, Hen. III, 3:89; CCR 1234-7, Hen. III, 3:41; CChR 1:192].
If Margred/Margaret were older, would it not be more logical to conclude she was a daughter of a concubine, such as Tangwystl ferch Llywarch Goch (mother of Llywelyn's eldest son Gruffudd), rather than a child of this daughter of the King of Man?"
Richardson, 2009, Gen-Medieval Archives: "I think it is a fair assumption that Llywellyn's daughter, Margaret, was born right about 1205,as she had her first known Braose child in 1220. That's providing Margaret was 14 when her marriage was consumated and 15 when she gave birth to her first known child. If correct, then Margaret would have beenborn right in the time period Llywellyn was married to the Isles girl."[http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/1999-10/0939160501 Gen-Medieval Rootsweb post], Oct. 5, 2009, by Douglas Richardson
, Prince of North Wales, Prince of Aberffraw, Lord of Snowden, and father of Margaret ferch Llewellyn, was born in 1173. Margaret married her first husband in 1219. Therefore, Margaret was likely born between 1190 and 1203, being the dates of (1) her father's maturity and (2) the latest year she may have been born and been at least 16 years old at her wedding.analysis/conclusion added by , August 2, 2015
Note - in the 11th century, Welsh women consummated their marriage as early as 14.See "[http://www.ancientwalesstudies.org/id45.html Minimum Age for Welsh Kingship in the Eleventh Century]," by Darrell Wolcott, posted by [http://www.ancientwalesstudies.org/index.html The Center for the Study of Ancient Wales]

=== Disputed Mother ===
Margred's parents were Llywelyn the Great and...* unknownDictionary of National Biography, Llywelyn ([https://archive.org/stream/dictionarynatio57stepgoog#page/n25/mode/1up p 13])
* unknown mistress* (known mistress)[http://cadair.aber.ac.uk/dspace/bitstream/handle/2160/5112/gruffudd%20ap%20cynan%204.png?sequence=1&isAllowed=y Gruffudd ap Cynan] ()* [http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=aet-t&id=I9998 Margred], Rootsweb entry from the database for [http://celticroyalgenealogy.co.uk/ Celtic Royal Genealogy], the Turner-Thomas site "which is a definitive, well researched site" (according to Prof. Myron Wyn Evans, in his book [https://books.google.com/books?id=T0yBxEFTER8C&pg=PT27&lpg=PT27&dq=red+constable+awbrey&source=bl&ots=c8chdaagU9&sig=VdosnimBLscQ7SSdlZn6uwlylIA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=JctjVZz5MuTjsATgnYFY&ved=0CB0Q6AEwADgU#v=onepage&q=red%20constable%20awbrey&f=false O Hudd Ei Ddoe] (2012).[http://sharonkaypenman.com/blog/?p=74 Penman blog post]:"Although opinion is divided over the mothers of Gwladus, Gwenllian, Margred and Susanna, the majority of the genealogists I have studied lean towards their mother being Joanna." (accessed Feb. 13, 2016) * daughter of King of Man,Richardson in 1999 Gen-Medieval forums[http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/1999-10/0939251452 for example]Richardson refers to her in his 2009 Gen-Medieval posts as the Isles girl, woman, mother.Ynys Môn (see Wikipedia: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglesey Anglesey]) RÇ«gnvaldr Guðrøðarson, widow of Rhodri ab Owain, Llywelyn's uncleWikipedia: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C7%ABgnvaldr_Gu%C3%B0r%C3%B8%C3%B0arson RÇ«gnvaldr Guðrøðarson] & [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rulers_of_the_Kingdom_of_the_Isles Rulers of theKingdom of the Isles] (accessed Feb. 14, 2016); see also "The Kings of the Isle of Man," compiled by Stewart Baldwin, [http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~medieval/man.htm note 3]
Richardson, 2009, Gen-Medieval Archives: "The subject of the maternity of Llywelyn's daughter, Margaret, could doubtless occupy many posts here on the board. As best I understand the evidence, Margaret was a bit older than Llywelyn's two daughters by Joan, Gladys and Ellen. If we accept the possibility that Margaret might be Joan's daughter, itmakes things EXTREMELY crowded in the nursery at the beginning of Llywelyn's marriage to Joan. Besides Gladys and Ellen, Llywelyn and Joan also had their son and heir, David, at the first part of their marriage. I frankly can't possibly see how Margaret would fit chronologicallyto be Joan's daughter. Margaret either has to be the child of one of Llywelyn's earlier two marriages or else illegitimate. My opinion (notconclusion) is that Margaret fits best as a child of her father's marriage to the Isles woman. That's my opinion. Not a conclusion. I'm certainly open to further discussion and hopefully new evidence. ...: "Likewise, having an Isles mother would have afforded her the kindsof connections which would have made her a desirable match for the Braose family."[http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/1999-10/0939251452 Gen-Medieval Rootsweb post], Oct. 6, 2009, by Douglas Richardson

== Sources ==
* Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG/):** [http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/WALES.htm#MargaretM1JohnBraoseM2WalterClifford Margaret ferch Llywelyn]** [http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISHNOBILITYMEDIEVAL3.htm#JohnBriouseMMargaretB John Briouse]** [http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISHNOBILITYMEDIEVAL3.htm#WalterIIIClifforddied1263 Walter Clifford]* [http://cadair.aber.ac.uk/dspace/handle/2160/4026 The Bartrum Project] (digitization of "Welsh Genealogies AD 300- 1500" by Peter C. Bartrum)* [http://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p224.htm#i6724 Margaret of Wales], "Our Royal, Titled, Noble, and Commoner Ancestors and Cousins" (website, compiled by Mr. Marlyn Lewis, Portland, OR; accessed September 30, 2015), citing The Complete Peerage, by Cokayne, Vol. V, p. 642; Some Early English Pedigrees, by Vernon M. Norr, p. 68 and Richardson (MCA and Royal Ancestry).* "[http://plantagenesta.livejournal.com/53309.html The mother and daughters of Joan of Wales]," Plantagenesta (accessed Feb. 13, 2016)

Other references:
UK and Ireland, Find A Grave Index, 1300s-Current about Margred Verch Llewelyn. Source Information: Ancestry.com. UK and Ireland, Find AGrave Index, 1300s-Current [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2012. (Accessed 25 December 2014). Original data: [http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=82545525&ref=acom Findagrave], Data not sourced, inaccurate. Do not use this for a source for Margaret of Wales.
Web: Netherlands, GenealogieOnline Trees Index, 1000-Current about Margaret Verch Llewellyn. Source Information: Ancestry.com. Web: Netherlands, GenealogieOnline Trees Index, 1000-Current [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2014. Original data: [http://www.genealogieonline.nl/en/stamboom-dullemen/I149046.php GenealogieOnline. Coret Genealogie], (Accessed 25 December 2014.). Brokenlinks, data not sourced, inaccurate. Do not use this for a source for Margaret of Wales.
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{FMG}

NAME: _MARN de Clifford
OBJE: AUTH Liz Shifflett
OBJE: AUTH April Dauenhauer
OBJE: AUTH Vic Watt

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Iorweth Ap Owain Gwynedd 1145-1184 Margred ferch Madog ca 1129-ca 1201  
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Llywelyn ap Iorwerth 1173-1240 ? ?
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Margaret ferch Llywelyn ca 1208-1268/